What is Truth?
I got a bit of a shock today, I am no longer a certified sofer. What is more I am not qualified to become a certified sofer, and my writing is of questionable(and I am being generous) kashrut. Why? I have internet. Apparently in a very recent decision(like the past three days) Mishmeret STaM, Yad Rafael, and Mishmeret Sofrim, the three primary certification agencies, have decided to revoke the certification of any sofer who has or, and this is the kicker, USES the internet in ANY way even to simply send email.
One is advised by these three agencies to clarify with the writing sofer before purchase whether he uses internet in anyway and if he does, even to simply send email, not to purchase from him, as he is to be considered an apikorus who does not follow the spirit of Torah(I will try to update this later with a picture of one of the anouncements from one of the agencies saying this), and thus his kativa is to be considered possul. Oh and I checked, what kind of filter or Rabbinic heter you may have for using the internet does not matter, such a person can no longer be a kosher sofer.
Yes I know that the Jerusalem representative of Mishmeret Stam has a website and he even runs part of a blog. I have been unable to clarify how he got an exemption as I have been told that there are none.
Which brings me to my personal moral quandry of what to do. I cannot simply get rid of the internet, a significant part of my parnassa is obtained through the internet, and that may soon increase even more so. Also there is the issue of Kibud Av V’Em(honoring one’s father and mother), my kids cannot talk on the phone, they are all way too young, however they can skype with their grandparents(which is free by the way) and thus that is the primary way that my wife and I stay in contact with our American families. So do I play the don’t ask don’t tell game(one Rav advised me to do that). But then that doesn’t seem very honest at all. So I don’t know what to do.
your words are the testimony of your thruthfullness – and these will solely defend you.
First of all, your kashrus and yashrus is so evident nobody who invents new issurim can take that away.
Second of all, why don’t you start your own certification agency? How many other sofrim like you are out there? You’d fill a big need and help out your fellow “kofrim” as well.
Third, you’re in this to please God, not a certification agency. He knows your purity of intention and that’s what matters.
To answer your question, it is because I am not a “Rav HaIr”. Meaning that while I have passed the Rabbinut exams for a basic Semikha(Shabbat, Issur V’Heter, Niddah, Mikvaot, Aveilut and Eruvin), I have not passed the additional exams necessary to be a Rav HaIr and thus recognized by the Rabbinut to be posek in those additional areas(Mila and Geirut, Safrut, Chagim… I know I am forgetting something here…
While I may be there in a few years, I am not right now. So no agency of my own.
Anybody who cares about you having internet more than the quality of your ktav will simply have to be more selective in their choice of sofrim. I don’t think it is your responsibility to tell anybody without them asking you about it. If you feel dishonest vis-a-vis the safrut organization, are they your employers? If not, it doesn’t seem like you are responsible to tell them anything. Again, if somebody asks you a question flat-out, then you have to make a decision (and even here, I’m not sure what the answer should be). Chazak veematz.
The issue is that l’fi halakha you should not sell divrei STaM without certification. If you know your certification is possul because you have internet, what do you do about that? It is a difficult situation, and one that leaves me incredibly frustrated. Especially when some agencies seem to be willing to “turn their heads the other way” regarding certain established sofrim.
The concerns you bring up such as parnassa and kibud Av v’Em, do you know if the agencies have considered this? I mean now days like you say they are extremely reliant upon the internet. Its kind of wild to just make a MASSIVE decision like this that deeply effects a persons business and family connection. There are many other ways to guard a person from the bad things on the internet. Are there other soferim like yourself out there that are feeling the bite of this and seeking to reach out and work through this? Maybe figure something out or to approach the agencies to possibly reconsider something more gentler?
This “psak” has nothing to do with halacha. You should consider yourself in the camp of the may Gedolim who use the Internet (most of whom, not coincidentally, speak English and are exposed to the world) and rest assured that the “psak” doesnt apply to you.
Ask Rabbis Hillel, Morgenshtern, Osher Weiss, Mordechai Attia, etc. what to do. All of them use the Internet to spread their teachings and would fully understand your predicament.
Rav Hillel in a lecture just two weeks ago said that the internet was forbidden. Rav Morgenshtern has been saying that for over three years. Yes I know that they use the internet but the quite clearly state that no “Ben Torah” should use the internet.
this might be a solution to some get-problems: if the sofer is not kosher, his ketubah is not either (or am I wrong), and so the marriage is null and void, so no need for a get… Bingo!
Alas, no, Anthony.
Firstly, a ketuba doesn’t have to be written by a scribe.
Secondly, a marriage is 100% valid and binding even without a ketuba (although the couple still needs one).
The Wolf
I wonder if these people realize that they, themselves, are probably also ineligible to write since many phone calls are VOIP and use the Internet.
I’d also like to see this “announcement.”
Without internet on any form?? Nice! That means no authorized sofer may use ATM.
Funny that some rabbis forbid the internet. That does not seem to hold for their students when they search books on the National Library on their behalf…
Michael, why don’t you just get a certification from another rabbi/agency?
All things considered, I suppose the very restrictive rules for cooking in treife vessels came about in a similar way: it is not about science or reality or logic, it is all about keeping the flock together and avoiding that they disperse in nature, i.e. assimilate…
You’re going to allow yourself to be bullied? Rather you should lie to their faces than accept their evil control tactics.
As a sofer, what do you do? Mezuzot? Tefillin?
Mezzuzot, Tefillin, Megillot and Ketubot. I would do a S”T if anyone wanted to hire me to write it.
I get the impression your kids are still young, and well, aside from the obvious heartache of being far from family can I suggestion, in the spirit of Av, etc that you look at it differently? When kids get older, say 10+ the lure of internet becomes unmanagable fast. Just like tznius and all the rest, starting young and without is easier than breaking old habits and possibly setting them up for resenting Judaism and all our “no’s.”
Secondly, internet use in the home, I believe, is the issue. Not internet at all, ie, a biz (or office) can have kosher internet in the office, but not as at home.
Can you just do as we do – laptop and free wireless – we write what we need offline in the kollel or elsewhere, then I can either bring it home for a few minutes (when no kids or rav at home), or take it to another public place (lobby of the video store/beit din, kupat cholim is one of my favorites). Then just upload what you need to, check a few emails, and sign off. Our kids are told this computer is for my job and “they’ let me bring it home once in a blue moon and they never ask about it.
Several pluses: Public internet usage is always recommended to private for obvious tznius reasons that the rabbanut should appreciate. Kids don’t have that constant “I wanna watch something on youtube, play something, check facebook…hurry up! “No, you had it last time and never let me on so my turn…ABA!!! IMAAAA!!!!” And you don’t have, or pay for, internet in your home.
May Hashem bless y0u with a solution, and a parnassah, that fits for everyone.
1) What do you charge for a pair of gasos tefillin?
2) On what authority can this agency issue this psak? I mean, we always criticize the left-wing Orthodox groups for making up new rules to fit their liberal agenda but it seems to me that rulings like this, especially when one of the points of the Asifa was that business-related internet with a filter is still fine, come out of right field without any halachic grounding.
For a pair of Gasot tefillin $750(that’s with retzuot that are black on both side, Sepharid kativa and written with a reed).
Other than the Asifa and the bad feelings toward the internet stirred up by it?
What happened to the heterim for business purposes? What happened to Belz and Gur and other approval if you have Internet Rimon? (Perhaps it’s changed).
DOES ANYONE ELSE FEEL THIS WAY?
personally, as a result of Internet usage: i always feel — in my own experience — a constant sense of (a) guilt and shame (b) obvious bitul Torah mamash!! (c) weakened mind-power, i.e. kavanah (d) entering deeper and deeper into idle revery/illusion — useless bitul zman, i.e. reading everyone’s posts here and there, clicking to see other things and so on — I am alone!! HEY, it’s bad. (d) loss of shekhina (e) lashon hara or avak (f) loss of purposeful activity in the Kehilot of the real world — not interacting with TRUE responsibility, rather than from the standpoint of this PSEUDO-identity of a s-t-r-u-c-t-u-r-a-l-l-y determined SHAKRAN and BAAL GAAVA — think about it, i feel it, so it’s true for me (am i alone in this sensitivity?) i feel/know that writing on internet is unsound, but i cannot stop — not yet, at least. I quit cigarettes and overeating, many things by force of will-power and BS”D as a matter of time I will quit this, too — but for the moment: I am becoming aware of the NEZEK this is having on my nefesh, ruach and neshamah) on me the person inside here!! … the psychological impact this is having on my kavana, personality, etc may be an indication of WHY? is there an issur, a new issur on the sofrim: sefer torah, mezuzot, tefillin and so on — how can my present kavanah be part of that same world of KEDUSHA?
PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF ANYTHING RELATES, BS”D.
From my understanding they have ceased applying those to Sofrim and Shochtim.
Overall, I am sorry that this has become a problem for you. BS”D, there will be a quick solution from Above. Sincere, regards!
To Mr. Martin, above, I totally agree with you as i frantically write this. Rav Michael, all is minhashamayim, and while I don’t quite have a great solution suggestion for the family calls, overall, it’s really a chore being online when it has to be so quick and that can cut out a lot of what Martin mentions above.
Michael, Can you find out if they’ll give you a heter if you’re online for biz, but not at home? Like even write at home, then take the flash drive to someone else, or a cafe, etc, quickly upload, etc. that’s why i do, generally. If i’m online AND trying to write, etc then I get that “new msg” and it’s endless interruptions.
It’s really NOT the former enjoyable, leisurely read email, interesting blog posts, etc that it once was. I have to rush, but then am DONE.
The rabbanim don’t really udnerstand us folks who grew up so differently, but they’re right. One guest’s child for shabbat recently requested her bracha after kiddush be- an IPhone! which was followed by hard to tame comments by all the others of “No, me first, which color case, i want the flowers, ugly, i want …” they can’t think of ANYTHING but this electronic c..p. They don’t want other goodies instead, and feel so uncool without.
So, if there’s anyway to make a parnassah, without this internet presence constantly available, why not? Even if only for the kids. One rav says that the quickness of the movement on the screen, plus the unnaturally bright colors, is SO addictive (seratonin stimulator or soemthing like that), boys don’t want to stare at plain black and white gemarrah, later. they just find it visually boring. All is miinhashamayim. And Hashem does only good.
RE: Rav Attia, etc, I’m quite confident, but not sure, they don’t PERSONALLY use the internet. I do that for us, and it’s a real pain, and tedious, and what rav could possibly sit there trying to create a website, find a host, configure, save passwords, etc, and all that entails to run a website. It’s definitely a job for a pro, which I’m not and they pretty sure they aren’t doing tha themselves. loading up a video, cutting it, logging in, keeping the connection going so it doesn’t time out on Youtube, is a real pain. I take one or two days ocassionally just for that, but not the rav himself who’d never have the patience for all that.
Can you find out if there’s a heter for biz use outside of the home, and that maybe your wife can upload your posts and other writings here from another location? and you’ll have a clean heart and abide by their psak? Must really be done here now, but good luck.
On account of Kibud Av V’Em I have a heter for internet in the home, with proper filters ect, from my Rav and Rosh Yeshiva. I don’t personally see that I need one from anyone else. If I have to write without a Teuda from an agency, that’s fine. I did that for years, I can do it again. Since I mostly write for people in the Yeshiva who know I have internet anyway, it won’t matter.
As far as shechitta. I will just have to get a teuda from an American agency. I can probably swing one from the Eidah because of the personal kesher with Rav Shternbuch as well. Though since I was only learning shechitta to do it for myself and to work in the US, whether it comes from the Eida, KAJ, or Rav Hokima doesn’t really matter to me.
Just a quick question….Was this a stated rule before the fact? did you know, or was it written that this is the policy?
If yes, well then either get rid of the internet or loose the shtar.
If no, seems like a fun case in Beis Din.
No it is a recent development, post Asifa.
Oy vey … I’m so sorry. What will you do?